xxBURT0Nxx
Apr 7, 09:20 AM
I'm getting tired of Apple Mac's being INTEL's BIATCH!
Integrated graphics on a laptop costing THAT MUCH? PLEASE!
Steve Jobs should threaten to switch to AMD/ATI solutions even if just for leverage with Intel to get discreet graphics chips in these machines.
If this is true, this is a pathetic technology compromise in my opinion.
I would say the decision not to use discrete graphics is apples in order to save room inside the machine and make it small. If you want discrete graphics you can buy a macbook pro...? You make it seem like intel told apple they can't use the sb chips unless they use the IGP, which is obviously false. You are paying for the small, lightweight, portable laptop with the air, obviously not what's inside of it, save for maybe the SSD.
Integrated graphics on a laptop costing THAT MUCH? PLEASE!
Steve Jobs should threaten to switch to AMD/ATI solutions even if just for leverage with Intel to get discreet graphics chips in these machines.
If this is true, this is a pathetic technology compromise in my opinion.
I would say the decision not to use discrete graphics is apples in order to save room inside the machine and make it small. If you want discrete graphics you can buy a macbook pro...? You make it seem like intel told apple they can't use the sb chips unless they use the IGP, which is obviously false. You are paying for the small, lightweight, portable laptop with the air, obviously not what's inside of it, save for maybe the SSD.
Zadillo
Aug 7, 09:27 PM
gosh, the finder looks the same :( I dont want the brushed metal anywhere anymore!! Also, they should just integrate address book/ical/mail into one app!!!
Did you miss the part at the beginning where Steve Jobs made it pretty clear that a lot of the biggest secrets aren't going to be revealed yet?
Other people have confirmed that the Finders in the Leopard preview is the old one, and that the "new" Finder is being held back for the time being until it is closer to shipping.
So, it's very likely the reason the Finder looks the same is because what we are seeing publically now IS still the same, and we won't see the new Finder until later.
-Zadillo
Did you miss the part at the beginning where Steve Jobs made it pretty clear that a lot of the biggest secrets aren't going to be revealed yet?
Other people have confirmed that the Finders in the Leopard preview is the old one, and that the "new" Finder is being held back for the time being until it is closer to shipping.
So, it's very likely the reason the Finder looks the same is because what we are seeing publically now IS still the same, and we won't see the new Finder until later.
-Zadillo
aswitcher
Aug 5, 09:25 PM
*iChat Phone - Call numbers through iChat as part of .Mac... I guess you could make a conference with a combination of multiple phone numbers/iChatters.
*Maps - A new application designed to compete with Google Earth, but of course be much, much snazzier. Apparently, the next MBP would include a GPS chip so that you could see a "You Are Here" on the map.
I am hoping the iPhone has BT and GPS, and links to Maps on your Mac! :eek:
*Maps - A new application designed to compete with Google Earth, but of course be much, much snazzier. Apparently, the next MBP would include a GPS chip so that you could see a "You Are Here" on the map.
I am hoping the iPhone has BT and GPS, and links to Maps on your Mac! :eek:
RebeccaL
Mar 31, 09:20 PM
I hope this silences all the Android trolls that claimed there was no fragmentation.
OrangeSVTguy
Apr 25, 04:23 PM
Guess we all now know what that new data center is going to be used for now.
AngryCorgi
Apr 6, 04:16 PM
Since you have no clue how the sandy bridge airs will perform, I'll take your statement as FUD.
I'll give you some insight into their potential. The desktop i7-2600k has been benchmarked to be roughly equivalent to a 9400m in performance (assuming similar CPU).
i7-2600k GPU clock = 850/1350 (normal/turbo)(MHz)
i5-2410m (13" Mac Pro base) GPU clock = 650/1200 (normal/turbo)(MHz)
i7-2620m (13" Mac Pro upg) GPU clock = 650/1300 (normal/turbo)(MHz)
i5-2537m (theorized 11/13 MBA) GPU clock = 350/900 (normal/turbo)(MHz)
i7-2649m (theorized 13 MBA upg) GPU clock = 500/1100 (normal/turbo)(MHz)
As you can see, none of the mobile GPUs run quite as fast as the desktop, but the 13" 2.7GHz upg cpu's comes fairly close. Now, the 2.13 GHz MBA + 320m combo matched or beat out the i7-2620m in 75% of the tests (and only narrowly was defeated in 25%). There is going to be some random inconcistancy regardless, due to driver variances in different apps. The issue here is (and this can be shown in core2 vs. i5/i7 testing on the alienware m11x) the core2 duo really very rarely gets beat by the i5/i7 in gaming/video playback. This is because not many games are single-threaded anymore, and if using 2+ threads, the i5/i7 ULV won't jump the clock speed any. Further, the 2.13GHz was keeping up with and beating a 2.7GHz (27% higher clock!) in that test, because graphics are the bottleneck, not the CPU. Take into account that NONE of the ULV core-i options match the MBP 13" 2.7GHz upg GPU speed and its pretty clear that for graphics-intensive apps, the older 320m would be the way to go. Now for most everything else, the i7-2649m would overtake the core2 2.13GHz. This includes a lot of non-accelerated video playback (high-CPU-overhead).
Something you guys need to be wary of is the 1333MHz memory topic. Likely, Apple will choose to run it down at 1066MHz to conserve battery life. Memory speed hikes = gratuitous battery drain.
I for one am happy Apple is growing with the modern tech, but I hold no illusions as to the benefits/drawbacks of either system.
I'll give you some insight into their potential. The desktop i7-2600k has been benchmarked to be roughly equivalent to a 9400m in performance (assuming similar CPU).
i7-2600k GPU clock = 850/1350 (normal/turbo)(MHz)
i5-2410m (13" Mac Pro base) GPU clock = 650/1200 (normal/turbo)(MHz)
i7-2620m (13" Mac Pro upg) GPU clock = 650/1300 (normal/turbo)(MHz)
i5-2537m (theorized 11/13 MBA) GPU clock = 350/900 (normal/turbo)(MHz)
i7-2649m (theorized 13 MBA upg) GPU clock = 500/1100 (normal/turbo)(MHz)
As you can see, none of the mobile GPUs run quite as fast as the desktop, but the 13" 2.7GHz upg cpu's comes fairly close. Now, the 2.13 GHz MBA + 320m combo matched or beat out the i7-2620m in 75% of the tests (and only narrowly was defeated in 25%). There is going to be some random inconcistancy regardless, due to driver variances in different apps. The issue here is (and this can be shown in core2 vs. i5/i7 testing on the alienware m11x) the core2 duo really very rarely gets beat by the i5/i7 in gaming/video playback. This is because not many games are single-threaded anymore, and if using 2+ threads, the i5/i7 ULV won't jump the clock speed any. Further, the 2.13GHz was keeping up with and beating a 2.7GHz (27% higher clock!) in that test, because graphics are the bottleneck, not the CPU. Take into account that NONE of the ULV core-i options match the MBP 13" 2.7GHz upg GPU speed and its pretty clear that for graphics-intensive apps, the older 320m would be the way to go. Now for most everything else, the i7-2649m would overtake the core2 2.13GHz. This includes a lot of non-accelerated video playback (high-CPU-overhead).
Something you guys need to be wary of is the 1333MHz memory topic. Likely, Apple will choose to run it down at 1066MHz to conserve battery life. Memory speed hikes = gratuitous battery drain.
I for one am happy Apple is growing with the modern tech, but I hold no illusions as to the benefits/drawbacks of either system.
Multimedia
Aug 19, 12:33 PM
And I'm not convinced this is only an application problem. When I run Handbrake on the Quad G5 alone it uses just over two cores 203% @ about 100fps analysis (1st Pass of 2) speed. If I add a Toast encode while that is happening, Handbrake takes a huge hit down to below 150% @ 70-80 fps analysis while Toast can only use about 130% instead of more alone. So the Tiger OS X seems to have difficulty managing more than one multicore application's core usage allocation up to its maximum capability - IE Tiger is not so MultiCore Enabeled as it could be IE Leopard probably will be much moreso - let's hope that is one of its TOP SECRETS.
When I ran tests on the Mac Pro at the Apple Store last Saturday between Toast and/or Handbrake, their use of more cores alone and together was much better. Handbrake alone can analyze up to around 134fps while writing at about 107 fps using about 1.5-1.75 cores. So while not yet fully optimized for Mac Pro yet, it's already outperforming the Quad G5 significantly. Handbrake would appear to analyze files about 33% faster while writing them about 15% faster while using 1.5 to 1.75 cores. Quad G5 does analysis @ about 100fps and writes about 93 fps (2nd Pass) using up to about 2.2 cores.
Toast 7.1 UB uses Mac Pro cores much more than it does Quad cores - in the range of 280 - 310% IE about 3 cores compared to only about 1.5 cores on the Quad G5 as well as on the Dual Core G5. Unfortunately I didn't have encode times for each of the sample files I brought with me from the Quad so I don't know the real time how much faster that really amounts to. Running simultaneously on the Mac Pro, Toast would use over 2.5 cores while handbrake would use only one or less than one at best.
Together simultaneously on Mac Pro 2.66 it's
Toast/Handbrake
2.7 cores/1 core best
2.5 cores/.75 core worst
Handbrake during Toast is down to as few as 60fps but sometimes up to 100fps as well. Toast meanwhile is Still consuming up to almost 3 cores with Handbrake running at the same time. So Toast would appear to be much more optimized for the Mac Pro's MultiCores than it is for the Quad G5's Multicores. Same could be said for Handbrake - especially since it is not really fully Optimized for Mac Pro yet.
When I ran tests on the Mac Pro at the Apple Store last Saturday between Toast and/or Handbrake, their use of more cores alone and together was much better. Handbrake alone can analyze up to around 134fps while writing at about 107 fps using about 1.5-1.75 cores. So while not yet fully optimized for Mac Pro yet, it's already outperforming the Quad G5 significantly. Handbrake would appear to analyze files about 33% faster while writing them about 15% faster while using 1.5 to 1.75 cores. Quad G5 does analysis @ about 100fps and writes about 93 fps (2nd Pass) using up to about 2.2 cores.
Toast 7.1 UB uses Mac Pro cores much more than it does Quad cores - in the range of 280 - 310% IE about 3 cores compared to only about 1.5 cores on the Quad G5 as well as on the Dual Core G5. Unfortunately I didn't have encode times for each of the sample files I brought with me from the Quad so I don't know the real time how much faster that really amounts to. Running simultaneously on the Mac Pro, Toast would use over 2.5 cores while handbrake would use only one or less than one at best.
Together simultaneously on Mac Pro 2.66 it's
Toast/Handbrake
2.7 cores/1 core best
2.5 cores/.75 core worst
Handbrake during Toast is down to as few as 60fps but sometimes up to 100fps as well. Toast meanwhile is Still consuming up to almost 3 cores with Handbrake running at the same time. So Toast would appear to be much more optimized for the Mac Pro's MultiCores than it is for the Quad G5's Multicores. Same could be said for Handbrake - especially since it is not really fully Optimized for Mac Pro yet.
firestarter
Apr 5, 06:32 PM
Time for my 8 cores to start all being used at the same time.
++, finally!
I'm hoping they sell it on the App store. I prefer the licensing management and model on there. (Although 50GB might be a problem!!)
++, finally!
I'm hoping they sell it on the App store. I prefer the licensing management and model on there. (Although 50GB might be a problem!!)
marksman
Mar 31, 09:04 PM
As an Apple fanboy, I'm disappointed to post this, but Android will continue to win despite the huge fragmentation problem.
Unlike Windoze based computers, cell phone users expect to replace their phones minimally every two years. So for the most part these users just don't care whether the manufacturers bother to upgrade the OS or whether the few apps they've found need to be repurchased.
When they go shopping and see a brand new Android phone running a better OS with more apps than they had before, they will simply buy it. Especially since there will continue to be two for one offers and lots of competition.
Like Apple computers, iPhones will be superbly engineered, but that hasn't mattered in the computer arena and it won't matter in the cell phone arena.
BTW, I expect Apple to eventually command 20% of the world's computer, cell phone, and tablet market with 50% (or more) of the profits, so it's not like Apple won't be successful. It's like combining all of the luxury cars together under one manufacturer.
I disagree because Smartphones have become essentially computers for people, and people much more than ever want to maintain their existence when they upgrade or move on. With the iPhone this is simply easy to just get a new model of iphone and continue on. Crossing from one manufacturer of android to another with a new OS and everything else, I can't believe it is anywhere near as seamless or effortless.
I think mostly what we are seeing in the marketplace now is the android is for people who can't afford an iPhone. Other people mentioned the two for one deals and other things. It is just a marketplace where android based phones are more affordable and accessible to people who don't have as much to spend on a smartphone.
The whole android handset is crazy. Manufacturers make up new models every 3 weeks, Google renames each version of the Android operating system with some silly name... There is no cohesion or continuity in that at all. I think consumers look more for that than ever.
Android has barely been out long enough for most of the normal consumers to be on an upgrade path already and to have to cycle into a new device. Time will tell.
I think people will see a new android handset (although aqain it is confusing with 25 different makers), and expect to be able to just take it home and upgrade it.. But is that how it happens? Because it is like 2 clicks for an iPhone.
Unlike Windoze based computers, cell phone users expect to replace their phones minimally every two years. So for the most part these users just don't care whether the manufacturers bother to upgrade the OS or whether the few apps they've found need to be repurchased.
When they go shopping and see a brand new Android phone running a better OS with more apps than they had before, they will simply buy it. Especially since there will continue to be two for one offers and lots of competition.
Like Apple computers, iPhones will be superbly engineered, but that hasn't mattered in the computer arena and it won't matter in the cell phone arena.
BTW, I expect Apple to eventually command 20% of the world's computer, cell phone, and tablet market with 50% (or more) of the profits, so it's not like Apple won't be successful. It's like combining all of the luxury cars together under one manufacturer.
I disagree because Smartphones have become essentially computers for people, and people much more than ever want to maintain their existence when they upgrade or move on. With the iPhone this is simply easy to just get a new model of iphone and continue on. Crossing from one manufacturer of android to another with a new OS and everything else, I can't believe it is anywhere near as seamless or effortless.
I think mostly what we are seeing in the marketplace now is the android is for people who can't afford an iPhone. Other people mentioned the two for one deals and other things. It is just a marketplace where android based phones are more affordable and accessible to people who don't have as much to spend on a smartphone.
The whole android handset is crazy. Manufacturers make up new models every 3 weeks, Google renames each version of the Android operating system with some silly name... There is no cohesion or continuity in that at all. I think consumers look more for that than ever.
Android has barely been out long enough for most of the normal consumers to be on an upgrade path already and to have to cycle into a new device. Time will tell.
I think people will see a new android handset (although aqain it is confusing with 25 different makers), and expect to be able to just take it home and upgrade it.. But is that how it happens? Because it is like 2 clicks for an iPhone.
MovieCutter
Aug 15, 11:42 AM
Still waiting for game benchmarks...
Count Blah
Apr 6, 02:24 PM
Apple are kicking arse without the competition. Do they need it at this point?
Yes, now more than ever.
Yes, now more than ever.
MrXiro
Apr 8, 12:22 AM
I wouldn't be surprised. The quota explanation was given already, but they might also be holding back stock of the cheaper models in order to drive more sales of the higher end ones. "Oh, you wanted the 16 gig wifi model? Sorry, all sold out. But we do have this lovely 64 gig 3G version. If you really want the iPad 2, this is your big chance... it's only a little bit more..."
That happened to me, almost, when I bought the original iPad from Best Buy here in Canada on our launch day last year. The guy almost smirked when he said, sorry, the 16 gig ones were all sold out, but they had plenty of the 64 gig models. Luckily I persisted and he managed to find one more 16 gig, the last one! How lucky was that! :rolleyes:
Hmm... I think they did that to me! I went in just a few hours after the iPad 2 went on sale... they said all they had left was the 64gb Verizon model. :-/
I have an iPad already... I was just asking to see how they were selling.
That happened to me, almost, when I bought the original iPad from Best Buy here in Canada on our launch day last year. The guy almost smirked when he said, sorry, the 16 gig ones were all sold out, but they had plenty of the 64 gig models. Luckily I persisted and he managed to find one more 16 gig, the last one! How lucky was that! :rolleyes:
Hmm... I think they did that to me! I went in just a few hours after the iPad 2 went on sale... they said all they had left was the 64gb Verizon model. :-/
I have an iPad already... I was just asking to see how they were selling.
viccles
Aug 26, 04:21 PM
I'll believe it when I see it. Merom rumours have been flying for a long long time now. Not that it really concerns me anyway. Just hope its what you guys are anticipating
gnasher729
Aug 17, 09:17 AM
Edit: Please ignore this post, I can't count!!!
If you buy a Xeon 5160 (3.0GHz) at the moment they are �570. Apple are charging �530 to upgrade from Xeon 5150 (2.66GHz) to the Xeon 5160. Bearing in mind that you can probably sell the original 2.66Gz chip for around �300, it would be cheaper to buy the lower spec Mac Pro and upgrade yourself.
It's not something I would do myself, but some enterprising dealer could easily do that. In US prices, difference between two 3.00 GHz and two 2.66 GHz chips is roughly $300, and you could sell the 2.66 GHz ones at a premium because they had "extra burn-in testing" :-)
Seriously, the problem is getting money for the 2.66 chips.
If you buy a Xeon 5160 (3.0GHz) at the moment they are �570. Apple are charging �530 to upgrade from Xeon 5150 (2.66GHz) to the Xeon 5160. Bearing in mind that you can probably sell the original 2.66Gz chip for around �300, it would be cheaper to buy the lower spec Mac Pro and upgrade yourself.
It's not something I would do myself, but some enterprising dealer could easily do that. In US prices, difference between two 3.00 GHz and two 2.66 GHz chips is roughly $300, and you could sell the 2.66 GHz ones at a premium because they had "extra burn-in testing" :-)
Seriously, the problem is getting money for the 2.66 chips.
Brandon4692
Jun 22, 12:43 AM
I would sell the 3GS privately. You're almost guaranteed to get more for it. Post it somewhere tonight and I'll bet you that you get more for it than what Radio Shack will offer you.
Radio Shack's trade-in program is a decent option, but one could do much better with a little leg work.
Yeah I thought about that... But I'd rather not go through the hassle of craigs list and eBay... Just to many unknown factors. Who they are shipping meeting up with strangers scams I just feel safer trading it into the store but hey if you can get more for you phone all the power to you! I'm just a wimp about it lol
Radio Shack's trade-in program is a decent option, but one could do much better with a little leg work.
Yeah I thought about that... But I'd rather not go through the hassle of craigs list and eBay... Just to many unknown factors. Who they are shipping meeting up with strangers scams I just feel safer trading it into the store but hey if you can get more for you phone all the power to you! I'm just a wimp about it lol
Stridder44
Aug 7, 05:24 PM
I'm sure I'm not going to hate it, it's probably gonna be fabulous, but it's not an innovation as Steve advertises it. In fact, not a single thing they showed about Leopard up to now is an innovation. Everything already exists somehow. I'm not complaining about the new features of the OS, but about how they present them. They're all (hopefully) improved versions of existing stuff!!
True, I guess we can only hope that the top secret stuff is top secret for a reason (or because it wasn't ready for the Keynote)
True, I guess we can only hope that the top secret stuff is top secret for a reason (or because it wasn't ready for the Keynote)
THX1139
Sep 20, 02:39 AM
Ah, a mature, intelligent, well reasoned reply.
What did you expect? Didn't you look at his avatar? Cool, Homer is a member of Macrumors. :D
What did you expect? Didn't you look at his avatar? Cool, Homer is a member of Macrumors. :D
mkjellman
Aug 25, 02:52 PM
well, i've been on the phone with apple 13 times in the past month. other than very long hold times, which is unusual, my issues have been completely resolved each time to my complete satistaction. i don't know if people are upset at the 15+ minute hold times, but i think apple is still doing what they do best.
Small White Car
Apr 10, 12:20 AM
Oh, we are totally getting an iPad app to go along with this program. I can feel it.
I would oh-so love the ability to down-rez a Final Cut project and send it to an iPad...do all my rough cutting there...and then bring it back to the Mac and re-link it to the real footage to do the detail work.
I've had a lot of fun playing with iMovie on the iPad. I am drooling for something similar that works as part of a Final Cut Pro workflow.
Interesting news, but the bit about booting competitors is downright disgusting.
I'm a little confused...why was Avid presenting at a Final Cut Pro User Group's meeting anyway? Do they just come in and are like "Hey, you've all made a mistake!" or something?
I would oh-so love the ability to down-rez a Final Cut project and send it to an iPad...do all my rough cutting there...and then bring it back to the Mac and re-link it to the real footage to do the detail work.
I've had a lot of fun playing with iMovie on the iPad. I am drooling for something similar that works as part of a Final Cut Pro workflow.
Interesting news, but the bit about booting competitors is downright disgusting.
I'm a little confused...why was Avid presenting at a Final Cut Pro User Group's meeting anyway? Do they just come in and are like "Hey, you've all made a mistake!" or something?
samcraig
Apr 27, 09:00 AM
You really need to get a dumb phone............oh wait.....the NSA will still be able to log every conversation, text and yes your location..........
Either get rid of your phone or quit being such a whiner
Just to be clear - you think someone who wants to question what is and what is not being tracked is a whiner?
Did I read you correctly. Nice name calling.
Either get rid of your phone or quit being such a whiner
Just to be clear - you think someone who wants to question what is and what is not being tracked is a whiner?
Did I read you correctly. Nice name calling.
princealfie
Nov 29, 09:53 AM
http://www.onlisareinsradar.com/archives/000516.php
coolbreeze
Apr 7, 11:37 PM
If there is one indisputable fact of this world...
Those on message boards that say they hate Best Buy, are the first to grab the Sunday ad and visit the store at least weekly.
Bank on it.
Oh I believe you. They go into BB on Sunday morning, buy their gadget, decide if they like it, get home, order from Amazon, return to said BB once they receive the same, cheaper item.
Retail and B&M is doomed.
Those on message boards that say they hate Best Buy, are the first to grab the Sunday ad and visit the store at least weekly.
Bank on it.
Oh I believe you. They go into BB on Sunday morning, buy their gadget, decide if they like it, get home, order from Amazon, return to said BB once they receive the same, cheaper item.
Retail and B&M is doomed.
H. Flower
Apr 11, 08:56 PM
How about using more than one bloody core to render a timeline or do an export to the eternally-broken Compressor?
How about properly recognizing file attributes on import?
�stability?
�QMaster having better than coin-flip reliability?
�better R3D support (as well as other cameras)?
�GPGPU/OpenCL?
etc etc
- native video support (years behind in this)
- viewing upsized or downsized video without degradation
- proper render management
- removal of "insufficient content" and "cannot split a transition" errors
and on and on and on
The major thing, though, is they HAVE to start utilizing multiple cores. It's not and as video gets larger, rendering gets more taxing.
How about properly recognizing file attributes on import?
�stability?
�QMaster having better than coin-flip reliability?
�better R3D support (as well as other cameras)?
�GPGPU/OpenCL?
etc etc
- native video support (years behind in this)
- viewing upsized or downsized video without degradation
- proper render management
- removal of "insufficient content" and "cannot split a transition" errors
and on and on and on
The major thing, though, is they HAVE to start utilizing multiple cores. It's not and as video gets larger, rendering gets more taxing.
shawnce
Jul 27, 12:25 PM
Do you think the "core 3" will also have the same pin structure as the 2's?
Future revisions of the Core 2 will use a new socket allowing for faster FSB speeds, etc. (so the answer is likely no).
Future revisions of the Core 2 will use a new socket allowing for faster FSB speeds, etc. (so the answer is likely no).